A reply to Bob Pickel.
Subject: Re: SDA Video Criticism Website
Some of you perhaps have come across a web page promoted by a "Bob Pickel" when you tried to access our web while searching for "MacGregor Ministries". Mr. Pickel takes offence to the documentation of the video "Seventh-day Adventism" The Spirit behind the Church" which we were involved in the production of. He also unmercifly attacks Jeremiah Films on another page. The fact is, Jeremiah Films was hired to do the video shoot and editing but had no part in the content presented in this video and should not be included in his critiques.
A couple of things I want to point out.
Mr. Pickel is not speaking officially for the SDA church.
The church never contacted us or has ever disputed the credibility of the video in any way.
Many SDA pastors and churches have ordered copies of the video, we have never had any feed back from them in any way.
This is a personal crusade he is on by himself. Years ago after the release of the video we were contacted by Mr. Pickel and provided documentation to every point he disputed. It seems like no amount of documentation would suit this man.
Every quote made in the video was carefully documented by several former SDA pastors and teachers and we all were satisfied there were no missquotes or errors.
I wasn't aware of our friend "Pickles'' page on the web untill recently but it doesn't suprise me. He is a died-in-the-wool SDA, a person that no amount of documentation could prove him wrong. We spent much time with him by phone and letters years ago and provided all kinds of documentation etc.
He is on an all out crusade to try and give the SDA movement credibility as a Christian church and blunt the content of the video. This video has caused many SDA's to research their own church teachings and resulted in probably many thousands to leave the movement.
One of the problems with SDA documentation is that there are several versions of "evidence" for almost every topic. It is a nightmare to try and get them pinned down on a specific point. If one pins them down on a non biblical point they will revert to another view on the same issue and and sound very Christian and even provide documentation for their point.
It all boils down to the person of Ellen G. White, was she a true prophet of God or a flake? In their minds no one has any hope of salvation unless they accept her as a true prophet of God and her writtings as inspired scripture (equally as the bible) and the SDA church is the only true church. Any SDA pastor who said the bible superseeds the writtings of EGW would be fired on the spot (many have already met this fate.)
The SDA church tries desperately to come across as "Christian" to the public. Unfortunately many Christians who never study out the real truth of the matter go along with their statements and thus give them credibility.
If you share your own personal belief and salvation experience as a believer with them as a Christian but add: I don't believe E.G. White was a true prophet of God or that I must worship on Saturday. Or believe that being a member of the SDA church is a requirement for my salvation, (and) or that EGW's writtings were inspired by God etc, then ask the question "Am I your brother in the Lord, will I have any hope of salvation etc.?" No serious SDA would ever answer YES. Most will avoid a "NO" reply and try and change the topic. Unless you are one of them you will get the mark of the beast and you will not be saved.
Regarding the SDA video. Lorri MacGregor wrote the script for it and it was thoroughly researched and checked by a number of former SDA pastors and teachers (now Christians) and documented for each point verified and was exactly what the church taught and still teaches.
If you want a copy of our "documentation" package send us your address and $3.00 for postage. Following is a good overview by a former SDA pastor. This will give you a better idea of what they are all about.
Our ministry partner and former SDA teacher Rev. Verle Streifling firstname.lastname@example.org would be glad to answer any concerns one might have over Pickel's letter..
Because of Jesus,
Verle responded to one person who brought up the issue.
Here is his reply to the critique. The attached articles Verle mentions are available on request by email.
Dear Bro __________
As Keith promised, he forwarded me your letter with his response.
Bro _____ , you would really do yourself a favor to see that "Spirit behind the Church" video. As a former SDA, I can vouch for the validity of what has been presented in it. So also the former SDA Ministers had done their home work, and preached the SDA message, etc for years before they themselves left SDA, and contributed some of their researches to the Video.
For example, Rev.Dale Ratzlaff of Life Assurance Ministries, who spoke on the Video. In one area of the video he mentioned the SDA's Clear Word Bible, with its deliberate distortions of the Bible Text, to make the Bible agree with Ellen White and SDA's unique "Truths". I'm attaching for you a review of this Bible that I had done, to which Dale was referring.
SDA tries to duck the issue by suggesting their CWB is a Paraphrase, while that is absolutely inadequate! (as you'd see from the review).
Dale Ratzlaff has a very extensive website about SDA, http://www.ratzlaf.com/ and books and materials available, and some of these are free for inquiring ministers, including a bi-monthly magazine called Proclamation. Among these is his book Sabbath in Christ, and Cultic Doctrine of SDA.
Also the E-copy of my more extensive book "Bible Answers for Sabbath Questions" is available. It is presently being editted for publication in hard copy. Among these is Pastor Sydney Cleveland's book "White Washed" proving the SDA's excuses for the Ellen White false prophecies, etc, are totally inadequate.
Sydney himself as an SDA minister tried to defend her on these until he realized you cannot pad error with more error to make it become Truth, and he himself, at great personal expense, left Adventism, but has now become an Evangelical Minister. At the time of the Video, he still held the Sabbath, with his church, but having read and digested my book for a couple of years has now realized that even this Adventist "PIllar of Faith" is too shakey, for we must have eternal Rest in Christ, instead of a one-day per week of Sabbatizing which was works and cannot be added to Grace for our Salvation.
But one real problem in Adventism, is their duplicity or 2 or more views on so many differing issues, or texts, or problems re Ellen White. To uphold their teaching that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, they used double talk, saying "an arch angel IS NOT AN ANGEL". Because Ellen White taught that Jesus was an angel, they try to redefine an angel to being only a messenger and so Jesus as the 'messenger of the Lord' can be YHWH, and so not an angel. But that is fallacious for the text calls Michael, one of the ChiefS of the angels. So if Christ is one of these chiefS, there are other equals among whom he's one.
But their 'messenger' backfires for they call Ellen White, as she herself called herself "The Lord's messenger", making her equal to Jesus as the 'messenger of the lord'.
This traces to the fact that early SDA was by Statement of Faith until 1905 Arian, and their prophet among them denied the Deity of Jesus.
She also taught that Jesus had a fallen sinful human nature. So they try to double-talk their way out of this, saying that even if he had a fallen sinful nature, since he did not sin, he was sinless.
But then why would a Baby die before it has sinned? And if Jesus had a fallen sinful nature, He too must be born again before He can be saved. But they use this "fallen sinful nature" to show that since He lived sinless in the same body and nature as we, then this proves we too can live sinless, for he's our example.
The SDA leaders deceived Dr Walter Martin as to their real positon about Jesus having a fallen sinful nature, so they may appear Evangelical, and he would give them a defense. But at the same time F D Nichol wrote in his book Answers to Objections "This is Adventist belief, and we hold this belief, because it agrees with reason and revelation". He means by revelation the writings of EGW, for she is their "Canonical Inspired and Authoritative interpreter of the Bible".
In these areas I'm attaching a few of the Appendixes to give you better insight into these SDA issues, and re Dr Martin and the SDA. As well I'm attaching chs 15+16 that covers some of this, as well as their issue of Sunday Worship being the Mark of the Beast, and some of their teaching in this regard.
Bro ______ , I do hope these will be helpful. You may also freely contact Dale Ratzlaff of Life Assurance Ministries, and check his website, and get more and better insights into the real nature of Adventism. We who have come out of SDA, still love Adventists desperately, most of our families are still there. But we seek them to come to the Real assurance of Salvation and knowing they are saved, which they cannot know because of their Investigative Judgment and 1844 message, which is the Foundation of their Faith, by their own admission.
Yours because of Calvary
Rev V. Streifling, PhD.
If you want a good overview of our concerns of the SDA movement
take a few minutes and read the following article by former SDA Pastor Mark Martin.